Sound ports? - Yea or Nay

[Montesdad]

I have a potential build in the near future and am considering a sound port on the guitar.

For those of you that have sound ports, why did you get one and what extra does it impart to your playing experience?
When would you not get or want a sound port?
For those of you that do not or used to have one but no longer - why would that be?

I've seen many different versions but am referring to the kind on the bass side, upper bout.
Considering something that is not round or an oval as a few different options are open to me - not that I don't like round or ovals, just looking at something a little different.

Appreciate your comments and feedback on this - - -

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Montesdad

I have a potential build in the near future and am considering a sound port on the guitar.

For those of you that have sound ports, why did you get one and what extra does it impart to your playing experience?
When would you not get or want a sound port?
For those of you that do not or used to have one but no longer - why would that be?

I've seen many different versions but am referring to the kind on the bass side, upper bout.
Considering something that is not round or an oval as a few different options are open to me - not that I don't like round or ovals, just looking at something a little different.

Appreciate your comments and feedback on this - - -

Hi M's dad

I have a side port in one guitar, and have had them in two others. I do not need them in my other 3 guitars.

For me they are best suited for guitars which have a lot of projection into the room, but do not provide a lot of audible feedback to the player. These is the characteristics of my Kronbauer mini-Jumbo. It is toward my left ear, and fits my style well.

Thing kicks like a mule into the room, but as a fingerstyle player I was not hearing it as well as I do my Olson or Bashkin. When I listened to others play it I was very pleased, but when I played it I got frustrated.

I had a friend/luthier install a side port in it for me and it solved the issue. Now I play it and it sounds on a par with the others.

My Kronbauer…


Same was true of my Recording King 000-12 (ROS-626). The side port is positioned toward the right ear. I loved this guitar and so did my gigging partner (who bought it from me).

[b]Recording King…[/img]


My first was one I installed in a Seagull S-6 which made it a wonderfully pleasant guitar to play in quiet spaces.

I think hard strummers don't appreciate side ports as much as softer players and finger-style players.

I've played 3 Bashkin with side ports, and they were invisible to the ear. Michael's guitars project in nearly a 3-D fashion straight off the bench, and in all three cases it was impossible to detect any audible benefit.

None I've ever played or mixed sound for have affected the ability to have pickups in them (even on loud stages).

Horrible addition…
Here's a picture of a Batson I played it in 2011 (it was out on a road trip to get it into the hands of players), and it had a side-port that was just awful tone-wise; overly mid-rangy, in the face with very unpleasant sound. I actually contacted the builders to discuss it from a player's perspective., and they were most defensive (understandably) and non-responsive. But I do add it as a bad experience I had with a side-port.

Batson…



I think too often luthiers have not experimented with side ports enough to know how big to make them or what placing them does to sound. Builders just seem to make a hole somewhere there and expect it to work. I build my to the specs of Tim McKnight's small egg shape/size side ports, and they have all worked well.

Both Tim and Alan Curruth have done pretty extensive research into how side-ports affect volume, projection and tone. Alan has even built a research model guitar to play around with them. Here's a picture of Alan's test guitar…



Hope this adds to the process…

[Ted @ LA Guitar Sales]

A sound port will direct some of the volume up towards the player, nothing more, nothing less. If this is desirable, than there is no reason not to have one added.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Ted @ LA Guitar Sales

A sound port will direct some of the volume up towards the player, nothing more, nothing less. If this is desirable, than there is no reason not to have one added.

Hi Ted

Both Tim McKnight's and Alan Curruth's experiments show they change the Helmholtz frequency slightly, and increase volume out front a small percentage. In both cases to the advantage of the guitar, not the detriment.

But they do change more than just the player's ability to hear.

[ChuckS]

I agree with what's been said, such as some guitars benefit more than others from a soundport (some wrap the sound around more to the player) and some styles of playing (fingerstyle) benefit more from a soundport. However, even those guitars that do wrap the sound around to the player don't do it evenly across the frequency spectrum. Bass tends to go out in all directions, and higher frequencies tend to go out forward from the soundboard. So, a soundport helps to deliver all the frequency content to the player; this may be why some feel the port sound to the player is similar to what the guitar sounds like out in front of it. Additionally, those players with some high frequency hearing loss, or when playing in an acoustically dead room, may benefit from those high frequencies being sent directly to the player's ear.

I also agree with earlier comments about keep the soundport smallish. I've played a few guitars with large ports and it seemed like I was hearing the sound inside the guitar (like hearing inside a barrel) vs a projected type of sound.

My current 2 guitars have soundports. I wouldn't get a guitar without one.

I also agree with getting information from Tim McKnight and especially from Alan Carruth.

[Ted @ LA Guitar Sales]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi Ted

Both Tim McKnight's and Alan Curruth's experiments show they change the Helmholtz frequency slightly, and increase volume out front a small percentage. In both cases to the advantage of the guitar, not the detriment.

But they do change more than just the player's ability to hear.

Thanks, Larry. While I played dozens of guitars with sound ports, the only guitar I played side by side with, and without one was the Blackbird Lucky 13. And while the one with the port was louder when playing it, I could not hear any difference while a client played them for me. Had the same experience with an Edwinson that had a sound port with a sliding "door" that allowed you to close off the port. My comment was based on those two guitars, and conversations I had with a half dozen or so builders who offer the ports as an option.

Clearly Tim, and Alan have given this more thought than I, or some of the other builders I discussed this with have. The OP should probably discuss the port with his builder, and get their opinion.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Ted @ LA Guitar Sales

…Clearly Tim, and Alan have given this more thought than I, or some of the other builders I discussed this with have. The OP should probably discuss the port with his builder, and get their opinion.

Hi Ted

I find people's 'opinions' on side ports are more in the 'I love mine…' or 'Not-for-me…' without a lot of analysis.

The fun test is to allow people to play my guitar with the port, and then while they are playing drop a microfiber towel over the side port and listen to them go "Wow - that really makes a difference!"

I think Tim's tests showed only about a 5% increase in projection into the room, and then Alan's tests showed the Helmholtz freq change is very minimal and not really an issue.

The real question is "Are they good?" and my answer is "When they are…"

[Rosewood99]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

I had a friend/luthier install a side port in it for me and it solved the issue. Now I play it and it sounds on a par with the others.

You had them installed after market?

[admanmike]

See if your luthier can have a sound port cover maxe, so when you're playing the guitar with the cover on you can project further out, and if you want more projection towards yourself, you can take the sound port cover off and enjoy it that way. It could be done with a magnetic system to where the sound port cover is the exact piece that was cut from the base side.

Sent from my LG-H918 using Tapatalk

[mmasters]

I think the big ones sound woofy and a make the guitar sound weird, if I got one it would be a small one.

[guitar george]

I've never had a guitar with a sound port, but, if a sound port actually makes it such that the player can hear more accurately what the audience hears, that would be a big advantage - especially when practicing.

[mattwood]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi Ted

I find people's 'opinions' on side ports are more in the 'I love mine…' or 'Not-for-me…' without a lot of analysis.

The fun test is to allow people to play my guitar with the port, and then while they are playing drop a microfiber towel over the side port and listen to them go "Wow - that really makes a difference!"

I think Tim's tests showed only about a 5% increase in projection into the room, and then Alan's tests showed the Helmholtz freq change is very minimal and not really an issue.

The real question is "Are they good?" and my answer is "When they are…"

Larry, that test never makes sense to me. It's no surprise that you get a huge difference in sound with a towel covering the port. You are going to cover the hole with a material that is definitely going to muffle the sound. A better comparison and I think a much more valid test would be if you could cover the port with the same material that the guitar back and sides is made of. I have seen some builder who actually makes a port that can be covered with the same material as the rest of the side of the guitar. Then I think you can really tell how much difference the port makes.

[Pitar]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi Ted

Both Tim McKnight's and Alan Curruth's experiments show they change the Helmholtz frequency slightly, and increase volume out front a small percentage. In both cases to the advantage of the guitar, not the detriment.

But they do change more than just the player's ability to hear.

Yes, and of course both are capable lab sound engineers, right? I think not.

The desire to hear something will usually follow with the claim of hearing those desired results, not unlike the opening up of a guitar, based on no known data establishing any credible claim for the human ear to remember with a defining degree of accuracy a tone at one point in time and use it to compare a tone at some other distant point in time.

Let's extrapolate for the sake of science the tests conducted by the above mentioned individuals -

1. Were the tests conducted with the proper solenoid, identically placed, to measurably ensure identical string deflections and releases?

No. There wasn't any such device in place, much less imagined by either individual because they are not engineers of that capacity.

2. Were the tests conducted in a lab of carefully controlled atmospheric conditions ensuring identical temps and relative humidity conditions prevailed?

No. That instrumentation was not present, either.

3. Were the tests conducted in a room where the acoustics were measurably ascertained for a known set of sounds measured at the source of a sound, and measured at a controlled distance to know the changes in that sound over that distance prior to conducting tests?

No, that was not a condition of the test set-up, either.

4. Lastly, the spectrum analysis of the frequency response and levels (in decibels) taken by the meager equipment used were values inaudible to the human ear.

Summary, poor tests conducted to establish a value that in all its best finery cannot be heard by the human ear were actually released publicly. Really? This "data" supports the very real propensity of the human to hear what its owner wants to hear, through the power of suggestion (by respectable people), but only in the mystical sense because the scientific sense of it was not explored well enough to support the claim.

[TBman]

I put soundports in three of my guitars. One I did just for the heck of it (Washburn D-10S) and the others I did it because they lacked some volume - Seagull Coastline Cedar Folk and Lucero LC-100 classical. The Seagull is a good little blues box now and the classical sounds a lot better (along with a bone saddle, lol. Its only a $99 guitar but its much better now).

I wouldn't put one in my other guitars as they don't need any help.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Pitar

Yes, and of course both are capable lab sound engineers, right? I think not.

Hi Pitar

Glad to see you made up your mind about their tests without asking either one. They both are members of this group, and both build guitars.